Do you believe being gay is a choice

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by DrumNFeather

So, by suggesting that it is not a choice, does that mean that if it were a choice most gay men and or women would then choose not to be gay? Just curious.

The personal accounts I have heard with my own ears--being gay was something they desperately did NOT want to be. And of course I have heard the same sort of accounts in media and press. Honestly, I have never heard an account where someone claimed it was not tremendously difficult and ego-dystonic. That's why I asked you guys for an example. One example. Of course just one example doesn't prove that you "choicers" are correct, but it does add to possibility.

[MikeWaters]

How many gay Mormon suicides will it take for some of you to realize that being gay is not something most of these folks wanted to be?

Again, accounts of suicide empirically supporting me. I'm still waiting for one anecdote from the choicers.

[MikeWaters]

Even the church's position that gay men can have temple recommends supports my position.

If it is a conscious deliberate choice to be gay, wouldn't it be a sin?

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Even the church's position that gay men can have temple recommends supports my position.

If it is a conscious deliberate choice to be gay, wouldn't it be a sin?

We are all sinners and yet we are still given a recommend.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

How many gay Mormon suicides will it take for some of you to realize that being gay is not something most of these folks wanted to be?

Again, accounts of suicide empirically supporting me. I'm still waiting for one anecdote from the choicers.

How many victims of child sexual abuse by a member of their same sex choose not to perpetuate the abuse and choose not to pursue a homosexual lifestyle despite intense psychological conditioning?

There is an equally or even higher number of suicides among victims of childhood sexual abuse victims than among homosexuals who do not want to be homosexual.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by tooblue

How many victims of child sexual abuse by a member of their same sex choose not to perpetuate the abuse and choose not to pursue a homosexual lifestyle despite intense psychological conditioning?

There is an equally or even higher number of suicides among victims of childhood sexual abuse victims than among homosexuals who do not want to be homosexual.

what does this have to do with anything? I've had things vandalized and have been robbed, but I choose not to do the same. This applies to sexual attraction, how?

You are obviously the one with the most need to feel that it is a conscious choice. Instead of questioning me, you should be questioning yourself.

[Taq Man]

So would the no choicers also agree that pedophiles have no choice in their sexual attraction to children?

Why would someone choose to be attracted to sex with 3 year olds?

What about bestiality? I have worked several cases of men who could not control their sexual attraction to animals to the point that they were unable to pass a dead deer carcas on the road without stopping to satisfy themselves.

At what point are we as humans responsible for our sexual attractions?

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Taq Man

So would the no choicers also agree that pedophiles have no choice in their sexual attraction to children?

Why would someone choose to be attracted to sex with 3 year olds?

What about bestiality? I have worked several cases of men who could not control their sexual attraction to animals to the point that they were unable to pass a dead deer carcas on the road without stopping to satisfy themselves.

At what point are we as humans responsible for our sexual attractions?

I hope you're not being sarcastic, Taq, because you make some very good points. The root question, whether the attraction is a choice or not, is: Does having an inclination mean I should have a right to act out on it?

[Taq Man]

Originally Posted by Tex

I hope you're not being sarcastic, Taq, because you make some very good points. The root question, whether the attraction is a choice or not, is: Does having an inclination mean I should have a right to act out on it?

I'm not being sarcastic at all. In fact both situations (the 3 year old and the bestiality) are real events that I have had the sad misfortune of being involved in. The 3 year old actually died from it. I have seen the men who did these horrible acts and they all said the same thing the gay community always says. They can't control what they are sexually attracted to.

I don't know that there is a clean anwser to this. I can't understand someone choosing to be attracted to kids or roadkill anymore than I can understand the biochemistry or social factors that would bring about the condition.

I do know that it wasn't that long ago that homosexuality was looked at as a perversion. It is now accepted. Where do we draw the line?????

In the bestiality cases the lawyers actually argued that it should be O.K. since no humans rights were violated (except for the woman who witnessed the perv in the bushes dropping the hammer on a day old deer carcass) but I think you get my point.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Taq Man

I'm not being sarcastic at all. In fact both situations (the 3 year old and the bestiality) are real events that I have had the sad misfortune of being involved in. The 3 year old actually died from it. I have seen the men who did these horrible acts and they all said the same thing the gay community always says. They can't control what they are sexually attracted to.

I don't know that there is a clean anwser to this. I can't understand someone choosing to be attracted to kids or roadkill anymore than I can understand the biochemistry or social factors that would bring about the condition.

I do know that it wasn't that long ago that homosexuality was looked at as a perversion. It is now accepted. Where do we draw the line?????

In the bestiality cases the lawyers actually argued that it should be O.K. since no humans rights were violated (except for the woman who witnessed the perv in the bushes dropping the hammer on a day old deer carcass) but I think you get my point.

This is the same point that some conservatives have made--Rick Santorum comes to mind--and immediately get criticized for "comparing" homosexuality to beastiality. He wasn't comparing the acts, he was comparing the rationale for legitimacy. And they are the same.