02-10-2008, 06:14 PM | #11 | |
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Waters hit on a great point, though. This election appears to be down to three candidates. 2 support withdrawal from Iraq, 1 supports staying, possibly forever. The 1 that supports staying has also indicated he may bomb Iran. He has pushed for kicking Russia out of the G-8. Are you really wanting to discuss "loss of American prestige" as an issue exclusive to Obama/Hillary? McCain is a bully. Bush is a bully in foreign affairs, and that hasn't done much for American prestige overseas (or in the US, for that matter, where the overwhelming majority of Americans think America is not on a good path right now). I am not looking for a Bush clone in foreign affairs to take over for the next 4 years. We have huge problems in the Middle East right now. I don't know that our situation is improved by invading Iran next. Withdrawing from Iraq may result in horrific consequences. It could also prompt Iraq to begin preparing now to take over its own affairs, something that has not happened to any great extent as of yet. If the latter, then withdrawing is a great idea. If the former, it will be a disaster. Nobody can know for certain how it will go. It is a calculated risk, no question. Then again, staying is not without its risks either. Iraq has been on the brink of civil war during the US occupation, and it could still devolve into a civil war- one with US troops stuck in the middle. What would that do to US prestige? Our military presence tends to favor the Shia as opposed to the Sunni, despite the overt hostility expressed by the Shia towards the West. Is that desirable? Iraq is draining our resources, and leaving us exposed to other threats with our military fully engaged (and struggling to keep up) in Iraq already. As a result, we aren't doing what we should be doing in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Meanwhile, Pakistan is devolving into chaos and we seem totally unprepared for the potential consequences (particularly given that they are a nuclear power). We agree that these are all reasons we shouldn't have gone into Iraq in the first place. But I absolutely disagree that you or anyone else out there can say with any certainty that staying in Iraq is better than withdrawing from Iraq, or that the consequences are any more predictable. We are stuck in a dangerous game in Iraq, and there are no good answers anymore. |
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02-10-2008, 06:42 PM | #12 |
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I meant in the sense of all good serious art being cathartic, in a sense.
I agree.
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
02-10-2008, 06:43 PM | #13 | |
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I believe it is peace for our time... Go home and get a nice quiet sleep."
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
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02-10-2008, 07:05 PM | #14 | |||
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America does represent a set of ideals, represents hope, but do you really believe we're the *only* ones who do? Please don't tell me you're this self deluded. We're pretty cool, but we're not everything. Quote:
I would call it facing reality. We don't have the resources to rescue any & all people in the world from bad things... including our own mess in Iraq. Quote:
It's time to maintain a strong defense but pull back our committment, stop baby-sitting and spoon feeding the lesser nations. They need to solve their problems on their own. Iraq dealt with our former friend Saddam, got through it. They can take the bull by the horns & fight Islamic terrorism themselves. Resolving the Islamic terrorism problem is not something we can do for the Islamic world. Last edited by Ma'ake; 02-10-2008 at 07:09 PM. |
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02-10-2008, 07:34 PM | #15 | |
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Obama is the only one promising pull out come what may on a timetable.
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
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02-10-2008, 07:40 PM | #16 |
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SU is the classic in-tweed-smoking-a-pipe-in-his-library bourgeois war-hawk. He is effete and privileged, and in between advocating further war, worries that someone might pull rank and get their kid into that ultra-selective private school over his.
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02-10-2008, 07:41 PM | #17 |
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Exactly, but you won't catch anyone who advocates withdrawal doing this. It HAS to be talked about.
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02-10-2008, 07:51 PM | #18 | |
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If he were to become president, and when 2009 passes and we're still mired in the war, it'll be awfully easy for the media to pull up these sound-bites, play them to the masses, and watch his approval plummet. |
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02-10-2008, 07:53 PM | #19 |
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You're so sensitive always worrying about our soldiers dying. I wonder when you'll say something to recognize the many more civilians dying and the millions suffering intolerable living conditions because of actions taken by your country. I would like the peaceatallcostsnicks to talk about those folks. They never do. They pretend they don't exist. Do the peaceatallcostsnicks think they're subhuman because they're Muslims and not Americans?
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
02-10-2008, 07:55 PM | #20 | |
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Listen up, McCain, Barbara and I are feeding you your themes.
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
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