08-04-2007, 08:58 PM | #1 |
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David Whitmer's Conditional Ordination
I came across these little historical nugggets and thought I'd share them. The first is from the Far West Record (p. 151), and the second is from an interview held in the Church Archives.
1. Meeting of the High Council at Far West Missouri Mar. 15, 1838. Minutes: President Joseph Smith jr gave a history of the ordination of David Whitmer, which took place in July 1834, to be a leader, or a prophet to this Church, which (ordination) was on conditions that he (J. Smith jr) did not live to God himself. 2. From the Zenos Gurley Interview of David Whitmer, Jan. 14, 1885: 22.Q. Did Joseph Smith ordain you as his Successor? Ans—Yes he did, in Clay County, Mo - 1834. upon condition that he was killed or any mishap befell him. I regard my authority as an elder for Christ given me of God before that time as superior to any honor which Joseph could bestow upon me by any such ordination. This was done on or about the time when Joseph dismissed the "Camp" which he had brought up to deliver Zion a body of some 300 men who was armed and equipped for war.
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"Do not despise the words of prophets, but test everything; hold fast to what is good; " 1 Thess. 5:21 (NRSV) We all trust our own unorthodoxies. Last edited by Sleeping in EQ; 08-04-2007 at 09:33 PM. |
08-05-2007, 03:00 PM | #2 | |
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08-06-2007, 03:29 PM | #3 | |
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That's were Sidney's claim is strongest. My judgment is that if Hyrum Smith had survived, there's a good chance he would have been Joseph's successor. Had Emma and co. headed for Salt Lake, Joseph Smith III might have been a Church President as well. I think William Marks, as the President of the Nauvoo Stake, also had a reasonably strong claim. Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer would have had strong claims had they not been excommunicated, and had they stayed close to Joseph and remained popular with the Saints. There are several accounts of Joseph Smith III being designated as successor by his father in the Red Brick Store in Nauvoo. Strang's case is interesting in that he thought himself the new prophet immediately (and had a purported letter from Joseph). It's also interesting in that William Smith, Martin Harris, William Marks, John Page, and William McLellin all supported him, at least for a while. William Smith put himself forward briefly. There are also credible accounts that Joseph said that the President of the Quorum of the Twelve should succeed him. (D&C 107, for one). As was so often the case, Joseph was very ambiguous and seemed to change his mind on things. It should be remembered that Brigham Young was not declared the Prophet and President of the Church, in the sense we know it today, for three years (and even then, it was done with only seven Apostles present to vote--three were disaffected). The followers of Brigham initially dissolved the First Presidency. At first Brigham led the Church as President of the Quorum of the Twelve. I'm just touching the tip of the iceberg on the issues surrounding the Succession.
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"Do not despise the words of prophets, but test everything; hold fast to what is good; " 1 Thess. 5:21 (NRSV) We all trust our own unorthodoxies. Last edited by Sleeping in EQ; 08-06-2007 at 03:49 PM. |
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08-06-2007, 03:53 PM | #4 | |
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08-06-2007, 03:54 PM | #5 |
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Wouldn't thomas b marsh had a claim as well?
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08-06-2007, 04:07 PM | #6 |
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Brother Marsh left the Church during the 1838 persecutions in Missouri. He was disturbed by the attitude of violence stoked by Rigdon's infamous Salt Sermon, and opposed to the activities of the Danites (some of which were being done under the direction of Church leaders).
The oft-cited story about wife, cream, and pride that traces back to George A. Smith, was given decades after the fact and has no historical support that I'm aware of. Had Bro Marsh not left the Church for a time, there's a good chance he would have succeeded Joseph as the leader of the Church.
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"Do not despise the words of prophets, but test everything; hold fast to what is good; " 1 Thess. 5:21 (NRSV) We all trust our own unorthodoxies. |
08-06-2007, 05:34 PM | #7 | |
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That succession proceedures were not in place when Joseph died seems natural to me, just because the church was so new, leadership was very much in flux (that is, apostles and other leaders came and went) and I believe (and I realize that I may be out of them mainstream here) that Jospeh thought he would live to be old. I don't think he believed he would need to give instructions on that point for many years to come, having escaped danger so many other times. I know many think that he knew he was heading off to die. I don't believe that but realize others may disagree. I am a bit more puzzled, however, as to why the succession to John Taylor took as long as it did. I know much less about that though, maybe someone can educate me.
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08-06-2007, 05:37 PM | #8 |
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once again, those CES manual authors lied to me when I was in seminary.
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