12-11-2009, 04:02 PM | #31 | |
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The fact you can't seem to handle is that there's no poll out there showing a majority (or even a plurality) who want the variants currently on the table. You think the bill is getting better ... it's apparent most Americans disagree. Why you think they'd suddenly change their minds if they had your supreme understanding of all the details is still unclear.
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12-11-2009, 04:14 PM | #32 |
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they are saying that the 55yo Medicare buy-in will likely cost $600 per month.
So who is going to buy this? People who expect to spend more than $600x12 in healthcare costs. Sick people. We would likely see two things: 1) an explosion of cost due to sick people joining medicare, 2) 55-65yos demanding lower cost for medicare. Then suddenly medicare becomes 55yo and older, instead of 65yo and older as it is now. Because Congress will cave and Obama et al. will be happy to sign it into law. Step closer to single payer. |
12-11-2009, 04:50 PM | #33 | |
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12-11-2009, 08:56 PM | #34 |
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One more (that's 5 so far, if you're counting at home). CNN Poll today, on the health care bill:
61% Against 36% For
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12-11-2009, 09:52 PM | #35 | |
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For some reason, health care reform gives him purpose. Go figure. People are needing work and jobs and he's worried about a fanciful overhaul of the health care system. As if that's going to stimulate the economy.
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12-11-2009, 10:44 PM | #36 | |
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My point isn't that "others think health care reform is good." It is that others make really good arguments in favor of reform (and specifically the reform being considered right now). I am not citing public opinion here. I am giving you links to thoughtful analysis on the topic. If you choose to reject those, that's fine. It would be totally consistent with how you have approached this debate from the beginning. |
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12-11-2009, 10:49 PM | #37 | |
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And the facts that are out there are that people don't understand the health insurance reforms being considered. That's fine. The reforms are complex. But why you think people necessarily would oppose health insurance reforms which have a much higher chance of sucess than the current regime (which is the alternative on the table right now) if they learned more about the reforms is what is puzzling. The reforms being considered are estimated by independent non-partisan groups to lower health care costs (bend the cost curve), lower deficits, insure 97% or more of the general public (with better plans than they have available now), and make it illegal for an insurance company to deny people on the basis of preexisting conditions. |
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12-11-2009, 10:51 PM | #38 | |
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12-12-2009, 12:24 AM | #39 | |||||
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There are inefficiencies as is true in any market economy. You already make a bunch of assumptions. Quote:
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And there are inefficiencies. And there's waste. Now the quantity is not fairly established but rather established by those with an axe to grind. Quote:
We have no real proof of that and you're quite the gambler, willing to risk it all in order to have your social experiment. Nothing of this magnitude has ever been attempted and people want radical reforms without any idea if they will work or crash the system. I am especially skeptical of any system actually designed to crush the current payment system when the real desire is for a single government payer system. Quote:
And this is the crux, liberals are wont to shy away from the real issues, because one does not buy votes that way and thereby subjugate voters to their will. By socializing the masses you slyly gain control of them. Other than a Democratic pundit, who really believes our current economic crisis is largely related to health care costs? I favor a free market system, with certain insurance reforms such are repeal of the McCarran-Ferguson antitrust exemption, without any additional government insurance, and incentives for wellness. We reward unhealthy lifestyles and that should be a key point in health reform. We are sickly, stupid and lazy population, so it costs a lot to take of us. And when we can't afford our sicknesses self-inflicted we want somebody else to pay the costs.
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12-12-2009, 08:18 PM | #40 | |
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