On Apostasy...

[MikeWaters]

Heard today from a friend in a past ward, that he has left the church. He, his wife, and children. Received the same news about a friend and member of my ward several weeks ago. In that case, he did not tell me. I found out when the Bishop informed me.

Both situations have saddened me. In both cases, the guys have expressed the desire to not lose friendships among members. In the case of the friend for a past ward, he's offered to sit down with me and talk to me about his decision. The current ward member did not want to talk about his decision.

A lot of questions in my mind. Why does this sadden me so much? What is the nature of our friendship? Mormonism is a kind of tribe, what does that mean? What are my obligations to my tribal members, and what are my obligations to members who break from my tribe?

No doubt about it, when you apostatize, you break from the tribe. And you do so knowing that you stand to lose all "tribal benefits".

Certainly there are things we will do for our friends, regardless of whether they are a church member. But there is a category of things we will do for people who are not our friends, but who are members of our tribe. I have helped many people move, whom I had never met before. Just because they were Mormon and in my ward boundaries.

I was approached by a member of the stake leadership and asked if I could help provide temporal assistance to a ward member, in the form of calling in favors with professionals at work. I.e. asking someone to provide pro bono assistance. In over a year and a half, we have helped this family move at least twice. They have been to church maybe 3 or 4 times when they first moved in. And have not been since, despite the fact they have active family members in the ward. They show zero interest in activity currently. I did grease the gears, and talked to a colleague and friend about this, but I did not press it. And I have not followed up on it. Trying to examine my motives, I found myself somewhat reluctant to provide assistance. It was the kind of request that would have been difficult even if these folks were good friends. I guess it comes down to the same category of tribal benefits that you just don't get when you don't participate. Like asking people to move your stuff when you've been inactive for 5 years in a ward. Maybe I should have climbed mountains for these members, I don't know. Their request was to "skip the line" in regard to government benefits, so maybe I had a non-religious aversion to the request in the first place. But maybe I handled it wrong.

With the friend from the prior ward, it will be easy to remain friends with him. I see him almost weekly. I will continue to see him. We don't have hearts-to-hearts, and we probably won't in the future. Or maybe we will. I don't know.

The other guy is a bit more difficult. He doesn't initiate anything, and any contact has to come from me. And you all know how prickly and anti-social I can be. When the tribal glue goes, it goes. And it just takes that little bit more extra effort, like swimming upstream, to keep things going. Especially when it is somewhat one-sided. I think to remain friends with him, I will actually have to go out of my comfort zone and do more than I would normally do. In other words, I would be amplifying my effort because he has left the church. Is that artificial? Is that from the heart? It certainly doesn't have to be artificial, and it can be from the heart, but you wonder if you are partly doing some stuff just because of what happened church-wise.

There is a bond between us believers. A special bond. An invisible thread connects us. And when that thread is severed, you feel the twang. You may have many other threads that connect you, but that one is gone.

I once had an older man in the church explain to me that church leaders may not get so caught up in the "controversies" of the day, or the things that inflame the young ideologues, because they are too busy and more concerned with just keeping the train rolling, when things are busting left and right.

I contrast my feelings today (and I have only addressed them somewhat superficially in this post, restraining my gaze to just one portion of this kind of event) about friends leaving the church with the comments of Bryan Watterman in the SLTrib article about the Student Review, about the need for a "loyal opposition." It just falls so flat.

Take care of your families. Pray. Stay close to the Spirit. Love your wives and stay away from temptation that would take you away from your wife and children. The messages we hear are from the men (and women) that have felt the impact of spiritual loss. You see the pain of a woman whose husband has left her and her children over worldly matters, and it brings things into sharp focus. At least it does for me.

Heaven knows I have been critical of many things in this church. But I have my reasons for staying. In short, it's because when I dig down deep to my most honest self, I feel a connection to the divine. A thread. To these things, God, Christ, the Priesthood, the LDS church. Some people call it "believing blood." I guess I inherited some of it.

I am and will continue to work harder to reach out to my fellow Saints. It's not in my nature, but I am trying. "The Fellowship of the Saints." A friend used to use that phrase a lot. It's a real thing. And it has value. And it is always available to each of us, no matter who we are or what we have done. This friend was about as good an amateur church historian as I have ever met, and because of that sometimes when I hear or think of "the Fellowship of the Saints" I think of Oliver Cowdery returning to the church. All the things he had seen, all he had experienced. His anger and pain and disappointment. But he came back to the Fellowship of the Saints.

I think of Juanita Brooks bursting into tears when she realized that the threat of excommunication that had been hanging over her from an apostle, had been brushed away by David O. McKay.

I think of my grandparents living far away from home in foreign lands, situated among the Saints in humble circumstances. And the joy and faith they communicated.

A welcoming hand is part of our culture. But we really need to make sure that our hands are among those that are offered, even when it is not easy.

[Archaea]

may I share this with others even if it means reposting?

[MikeWaters]

The random scripture generator came up with Psalms 78:38 for me yesterday:

But he, being full of compassion, forgave their iniquity, and destroyed them not: yea, many a time turned he his anger away, and did not stir up all his wrath.

It occurs to me that resignation from the church or apostasy, especially of a well-known prominent member, is a kind of "un-testimony" or "anti-testimony." Even if the reasons and views are never given. It's the exact opposite of a new on-fire convert explaining why he was moved to join the church and join the Saints. Imagine a former Bishop resigning from the church, and how that can roil a ward. I believe that is what is happening in this case.

How do you go from defending the faith to attacking the faith? The arguments that were scurrilous at one time become the arguments you adopt. How do you get there? You get there because you want to get there. If you want to leave, there are plenty of things to latch onto to justify it.

Why might a family not discuss their concerns with anyone in the church? Because they don't want to. They don't want to hear reasons to stay, they don't want to deal with pleas and admonitions. It almost has the feel of a prison break. Not a carefully considered process with ecclesiastical counseling. Certainly some people may go through a deliberate process, but I am not talking about those cases. I'm talking about the ones where the resignation/apostasy is a shock.

I imagine for many the decision comes not without anxiety and worry. For persons with LDS family members, there may be worry about family reaction. What will become of my LDS friends? But when the decision is made, for some there may be a feeling of relief to have finally settled the matter. Relief however should not be construed as happiness or the presence of the Holy Spirit. After all, many report great relief at the moment they decide to finally commit suicide. I'm not calling apostasy suicide. But I hope you get my point.

I think of the people that have every reason to resign from the church, but do not. The barest of threads connects them to the church. Often they may dismiss any reason to stay connected ("I'm not going to acknowledge the church has any possession of me by asking to resign"). But stay connected they do. The involuntary non-apostates.

Holding the iron rod is not an individual task. At least not wholly. It's a group task. You have a responsibility to the person ahead of you, and behind you. If not every other person in your entire view. To those who leave our company, we can only wish them well and godspeed, but the goodbye is not without regret.

[MikeWaters]

Part III.

The day before the news from the friend about his leaving the church, I saved my daughter from drowning.

When you look at the sleeping face of your child, and think of what could have happened...it's a weight. The responsibility of a parent to safeguard his child. And the reality that the things that are most important to you can slip away in a second.

I've seen so many people that have ended up on the wrong side of the tracks. Down and out doesn't begin to describe it. I sometimes think about what life was like before they ended up homeless, on drugs, prostituting, physically crippled from injuries, morbidly obese, and so forth. I wonder what they were like in high school. What their classmates thought of them then, and what they might think now. I wonder about family life and parents.

I think about my daughter ending up in such circumstances, out of my influence. The pain that would cause me. And how I would do almost anything to prevent it.

Physical death is easy to understand. Decline into the underbelly of society is easy to see and understand as well. But what of spiritual death?

"He was so excited to be passing the sacrament. He loved playing the piano in priesthood opening exercises."

A beaming Deacon one week; name removed from the records of the church the next. I'm going to wonder about this kid for a long time. I can imagine missionaries knocking on his door 20 years later. "Yeah, I used to be Mormon. My parents were." And the whole thing might be very foreign to him.

We make choices for our children all the time. We physically protect them. We teach them how to navigate the world. We knit the threads that will initially connect them to everything in this world. They will do their own weaving soon enough.

It's worth a moment to think very hard about what you are doing for your children, and why you are doing it. And what you could be doing, but are not.

[MikeWaters]

The first principle of the gospel is faith.

Faith has many definitions, but one of those is "the desire to believe." I am reminded of Fox Mulder's poster on the X-files TV show.



Fox Mulder's arc includes the idea, if I remember correctly, that his younger sister had been abducted by aliens. This provided the motivation to seek and believe in the existence of UFOs.

People that want to believe in UFO's--there's a lot of smoke out there. A lot of reasons to stay interested and believe. People that don't want to believe in UFOs can probably discredit almost all of the available evidence. The rest might be agnostic.

It's easy to be agnostic about UFO's. It's harder to be agnostic about God, because religion for many of us, is in our face all the time. We are forced to think about it more.

Mormonism, at its core, it is a charismatic religion. It advertises itself as a religion imbued with the power of God. That through God's power, the truth of it will be made manifest. That is not an appeal to logic and rational thinking. It's an appeal to something more primal. Like an electricity that vibrates within us, shaking the internal bell that says "true."

This is the core issue--can one trust this process of feeling God's power and presence? For most, this would be through the fruits of the Holy Spirit. I'll provide you with three answers I have heard from people who have left the church.

The first person is someone very close to me that decided the church did not fit the way he would like to live his life. He was never interested in church history, and did not leave over foundational issues. He is a returned missionary and BYU graduate (never been on this site, if you are wondering). He says that he himself had manufactured the spiritual feelings that he had previously felt as a believer. It was self-delusion. As far as I know, his name is still on the church records.

The second person is someone I am pretty close to and have known for many years. He has served in a Bishopric and is a high priest. He requested his name be removed from the church. He claims a kind of brain-washing, though that is not the phrase he uses. Members are instructed to profess belief and knowledge, and are then told that feelings will follow. As this process is repeated over and over, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. He says that he now follows "Natural Law" and is agnostic when it comes to God. On further examination, he admits to having spiritual experiences that he feels came from God, but that is still in the context of a kind of vague agnosticism, and the belief that the church is essentially fraudulent.

The third person is a thoughtful person that was what you might have called a "liberal Mormon." Someone that probably would have fit in with some of the predominant culture of this site. Part of why he left the church was because of the dissatisfaction regarding the treatment of fellow liberal Mormons. But he admits to a multi-factorial process. He had served in "important" callings, and is now a member of a small Protestant congregation. He says he feels at home there. That he is accepted for what he is. Essentially, all the pain he felt as an active Mormon is not present there. He is still on the rolls, but as far as I know, has no intention of returning. I've asked him about spiritual feelings and how these are reconciled. He says he doesn't know. They aren't reconciled. He's open with LDS friends about having left the church. He even had planned to attend his mission reunion, and in doing so informed many of his fellow missionaries that he had left the church. He said he was impressed with the richness and generosity of the response he received. And the diversity of experiences that people related to him. Things were much more complex and deep that he had given credit. But in the end he couldn't go to the reunion. Why? Because he could not bear the thought of having to face his mission president, someone he loved very much. He would be asked to explain, or would feel obligated to explain, and he knew he would not be able to.

Some people in this church never feel anything. At least I think that's the case. How could it not be? For those that do, they must reconcile those feelings, those vibrations, with their religious beliefs.

My father has a cousin. This cousin went on a mission, but soon became inactive. Wholly and completely. Married with children. Wife inactive as well, and a returned missionary. I asked my father why he was inactive. And my father said that the cousin had told him that he reported never having had any kind of spiritual experience that he could translate into faith and activity. Essentially, the things that had been promised never did happen.

Many, many years later I am in my adulthood and I stumble across this relative. Not only are he and his wife attending church, but they are very active and have had prominent roles. I have no idea what happened. I didn't ask. I don't really know him well enough to feel comfortable asking. But something happened.

Terryl Givens, in his book "By the Hand of Mormon," talks about the role of the Book of Mormon in some of the early conversions. Some of them never even read the Book of Mormon. Just in handling it, they felt the power of God, enough to throw their lot in completely.

A testimony relates the power of God in our lives. Apostasy is the discounting of the power of God in our lives. In simplistic terms.

Do you want to believe? That's the first question. There are so many paths that can take you away from belief. That's why the path of belief is called strait and narrow.

3 Nephi 27:33
33 And it came to pass that when Jesus had ended these sayings he said unto his disciples: Enter ye in at the strait gate; for strait is the gate, and narrow is the way that leads to life, and few there be that find it; but wide is the gate, and broad the way which leads to death, and many there be that travel therein, until the night cometh, wherein no man can work.

Strait is narrow. From OED:

Etymology: Middle English streit , < Old French estreit tight, close, narrow, also as n., narrow or tight place, strait of the sea, distress (modern French étroit narrow) = Provençal estreit , Spanish estrecho , Portuguese estreito , Italian stretto < Latin strictus (see strict adj.) past participle of stringĕre to tighten, bind tightly

Why would you ever look for a path you are not interested in finding? Wanting to find it is faith.

Have you ever been on a wooded trail? And the trail starts well-marked and obvious, having been trodden by countless people. But as you keep going, the trail begins to fade, because less people get this far. The signs become subtle, and after a time you are not sure anymore if you are on a trail. There is objective evidence that supports that it's a trail, and then evidence that causes you to doubt that it's a trail. You operate by your gut, evaluating the consequences of the choice. How far away will it take me if I'm wrong? Can I find the way back to where the trail was clear? Is there anyone that can help me? That knows the trail? Does the supposed trail have utility? Is it taking me to places of value or places of danger. To the spring-fed pool or the rocky crags?

I wish this was easy. It isn't. But the gospel teaches that there is a light that will show the way. It might be bright; it might be barely perceptible. But we will know it by its fruits. By where it leads us. This will bolster our confidence. For those with faith. That's the promise. It's up to each of us to make our choice, to choose our paths and make our way.

I can't claim to have any special knowledge on this topic. These are just the thoughts, in part, that have been provoked in me due to recent circumstances that have been painful. In ways that I could not have predicted or known.

Give this thing a chance, and let God prove himself. That's the promise.

[Viking]

I really enjoyed your thoughts.

I'm technically an apostate, but that's a misnomer because I never bought into the church. How can you fall away if you never believed? I had my name removed because I found it intellectually dishonest to lead a group of people to believe I was in "their tribe". I wasn't and never was. I served a mission and had great success but that's because I'm a highly competitive person, not a believing person.

You have the "believing blood". I have a highly skeptical world view. I believe that every act has a motive rooted in self interest. Even belief comes from self interest; the lack of belief can be easily demonstrated to come from self interest, too.

I can't believe; believe me, I've tried. My career is even based upon finding truth from falsehood. I was trained by the business intelligence guys that were somewhat en vogue in the investment community a few years back and really enjoyed the class because the idea of spotting the not-so-random liar was preternatural to me.

But I also deeply respect the believer and unless his system does harm to another, I want communities of believers to flourish.

I particularly respect the devout believer who devoutly respects the right to disbelieve.

[MikeWaters]

I read my posts here again yesterday. Time has passed. The friend that was previously in the Bishopric--the weirdness I initially felt being around him having to reconcile that he is no longer LDS--has subsided and gone away. He's still who he is. But no longer LDS. He even reached out to me to check on my welfare when I had not been around playing ball in a while. That was nice of him.

The second friend--newly reactivated, wife baptized, then left the church along with his wife--I don't see him anymore. I am friends on facebook with him, but he rarely posts anything and doesn't respond to any of my content. I do respond to his occasional post. As well his wife. As I predicted, not having the opportunity to socialize at church, and his reluctance to reach out in general makes maintaining a relationship difficult.

I can't imagine what my life would have been without the members of the church I have known. The impact has been so profound, as to be immeasurable. So many great people. We are always saying goodbye in this church. When we move. When others move. It's hard. But we still have a bond and a promise. Each person has to make decisions about their future as well as their children's future. I have to imagine that those that would remove their children from the LDS family do so because they believe it to be best for their children. The same with secular Jews or any other kind of enveloping religion/culture. They'll never know what they never knew.

[MikeWaters]

Found out that one of my wife's acquaintances has apostatized. Her issue was fairly straightforward--if the church is true, then how can prophets be wrong about anything? Since prophets have not been perfect, then the church cannot be true.

It's only anecdotal, but it feels like the apostasy rate in the church must be increasing. Why?

People have a lot of answers. But I think the best answer is the most simple answer. The apostasy rate for all churches is increasing. And what we are saying is merely a reflection of changes in our American society. Less belief, more atheism, more agnosticism. Less motivation to participate in a community of believers.

I think it may be tempting to think that only now is there "great" reason to apostatize. Gays, blacks, women.

When in fact, there have always been reasons to apostatize. The early history of the church is rife with apostasy. Some of Joseph's closest associates. Then again, there were those who stayed and remained true to the faith.

We live in an unbelieving age. Where religion when it is to be adhered to, must be safe and unoffending. And not ask too much.

To have faith is to struggle. It couldn't be any other way. And this has always been the way. Some remain, some do not.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Found out that one of my wife's acquaintances has apostatized. Her issue was fairly straightforward--if the church is true, then how can prophets be wrong about anything? Since prophets have not been perfect, then the church cannot be true.

It's only anecdotal, but it feels like the apostasy rate in the church must be increasing. Why?

People have a lot of answers. But I think the best answer is the most simple answer. The apostasy rate for all churches is increasing. And what we are saying is merely a reflection of changes in our American society. Less belief, more atheism, more agnosticism. Less motivation to participate in a community of believers.

I think it may be tempting to think that only now is there "great" reason to apostatize. Gays, blacks, women.

When in fact, there have always been reasons to apostatize. The early history of the church is rife with apostasy. Some of Joseph's closest associates. Then again, there were those who stayed and remained true to the faith.

We live in an unbelieving age. Where religion when it is to be adhered to, must be safe and unoffending. And not ask too much.

To have faith is to struggle. It couldn't be any other way. And this has always been the way. Some remain, some do not.

It is presumptuous to rate one era over another, but if the rate of apostasy is increasing it might be related to the following factors.

First, information is now more available, including unfavorable information about the Church and its leaders. The Church in response has not always been transparent, but rather has chosen to be obtuse.

Second, as you point out, we live in an unbelieving age, where the role of religion is different than it was centuries ago. Religious claims tended to be broader than today. Foundationalism creates an internal struggle for many people.

Third, when you don't struggle to feed yourself, the yearning sometimes for something otherworldly is not there.

Fourth, the lack of answers to age old questions makes it difficult to accept the authority and leadership of imperfect persons.

Brigham Young creating the priesthood ban out of his racist age, as the recent essay holds, will create additional problems of belief. If a leader is imperfect, how can one have faith in anything a leader will do or say? That is a legitimate question, and Brigham Young's monumental failure in that regard is a huge stumbling block to faith.

[ChinoCoug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Found out that one of my wife's acquaintances has apostatized. Her issue was fairly straightforward--if the church is true, then how can prophets be wrong about anything? Since prophets have not been perfect, then the church cannot be true.

It's only anecdotal, but it feels like the apostasy rate in the church must be increasing. Why?

People have a lot of answers. But I think the best answer is the most simple answer. The apostasy rate for all churches is increasing. And what we are saying is merely a reflection of changes in our American society. Less belief, more atheism, more agnosticism. Less motivation to participate in a community of believers.

I think it may be tempting to think that only now is there "great" reason to apostatize. Gays, blacks, women.

When in fact, there have always been reasons to apostatize. The early history of the church is rife with apostasy. Some of Joseph's closest associates. Then again, there were those who stayed and remained true to the faith.

We live in an unbelieving age. Where religion when it is to be adhered to, must be safe and unoffending. And not ask too much.

To have faith is to struggle. It couldn't be any other way. And this has always been the way. Some remain, some do not.

Did this come after the Church's new statement disavowing racist explanations for the priesthood ban?

I was shocked at what a problem this caused for a lot of people on Cougarboard, especially the old folk.