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10-26-2008, 03:52 PM | #1 |
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Do believers really believe?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle4761159.ece
This Brit atheist doesn't think so. I think she may have a point. |
10-26-2008, 04:28 PM | #2 | |
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What's more, even though a church teaches that people must do certain things to go to heaven, a person can certainly still believe in God, but simply believe that God's requirements aren't as strict as those taught by the church. A person could give stronger credence to the notion of God's mercy and think that as long as the person is generally living a good life, even if not in strict conformance with the teachings of that person's church, the person could still live with God. |
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10-26-2008, 06:47 PM | #3 |
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The intellectual honesty of atheists aside, I think he touches on a couple of interesting questions.
1) What is the purpose of infusing Christian rhetoric into our politics? If, after decades and decades it's now clear (and I believe it is) that cloaking conservative politics within a religious discourse fails to conceal the fact that religious social agenda is in no way being advanced in this country, why do we maintain the dialogue? Why continue to fool ourselves? 2) Do he majority of believers really *believe* what they espouse? Or, alternately, do they simply hope to be true what they claim to believe? |
10-26-2008, 08:31 PM | #4 | |
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2) There are all different levels of belief, and most religious will fully admit different levels of belief (well, except for Mormons in F&T meeting). Personally, I believe different principles with different levels of certainty, and I think my actions, at least the well-thought out ones, reflect these different levels of certainty. |
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10-26-2008, 09:47 PM | #5 |
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What happened to ER's first post. Freaky.
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10-26-2008, 09:53 PM | #6 |
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Interesting article. Similar to some epistemology discussions in classical philosophy. Generally speaking, early Christians were ridiculed by philosophers for relying on "pistis" (faith) instead of "logismos" (reasoned conviction).
LDS take it to the next level, often claiming to "know."
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10-26-2008, 09:55 PM | #7 |
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But really, they don't.
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
10-27-2008, 12:21 AM | #8 |
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I KNOW there is a God. It is a truth to which I am intrinsically bound. I have communed with God and I will not deny it because intellectually it is unfashionable. The only evidence I can offer to support my knowledge is my life and a sincere willingness to change my nature. To contend with my knowledge you must contend with my life. And I assume no person, even you, is so arrogant as to suggest that they could walk in my shoes and truly understand me … that role was reserved for deity; the son of God, Jesus Christ.
Amen Last edited by tooblue; 10-27-2008 at 12:23 AM. |
10-27-2008, 12:46 AM | #9 | |
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10-27-2008, 02:33 AM | #10 | |
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The conventional notions of knowledge are: 1. acquaintance with facts, truths, or principles, as from study or investigation; general erudition: knowledge of many things .... http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/knowledge The only person doing the mangling is you. How can you 'know' I don't know when you ARE NOT aquainted with the facts, truths or principles etc. I am? It is a matter of perception ... the perception you lack! |
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