On Islamo-fascism: Stating the Obvious

[Sleeping in EQ]

As the spinmeisters try to massage our brains from "terrorist" to "islamo-fascist," from "War on Terror" to "World War III," it occurs to me that a restatement of the obvious is in order:

1. Most commentators know almost nothing about either Islam or fascism. If cornered (and that's what would have to happen) into explaining the philosophy behind them, most couldn't fill 5 minutes of air time with either fact or truth. The one guy whose hitting the talk shows who I am confident might actually know something about these topics, Prof. Gingrich, isn't about to compromise his political agenda for something like accuracy.

2. There are somewhere near 1 billion Muslims on earth (most of whom aren't Arabs) and almost all of them just want to peacefully live their religion and go about daily life. Some have cultivated a dislike for Jews and Christians (and the opposite is true too), but almost none want to walk into discotechs and blow everyone up or fly planes into buildings. Judging Muslims by bombers and terrorists is alot like judging Mormons by the Lafferty brothers or the Lebaron's.

3. There are millions of Muslims in the U.S. and almost all of them are law abiding people who want to be peaceable and neighborly. They're a little fearful because their kids are sometimes being called "rag head" and "suicide bomber," and are being attacked at school (they're also being stared at in airports and are getting threatening letters from wackos), but they're as likely as anybody to be nice and upstanding.

4. Don't miss the fact that while neo-cons and Bush groupies are throwing out pithy one-liners when their critics use the "f" word (fascism), they are using the term themselves.

5. Stopping terrorism (which is something I'd like to do as much as possible without damaging real freedom) does not mean stopping Islam. We have a way of being very selective about not going after some terrorists (No one's invading Ireland over the IRA or Spain over the Basques), but if we equate terrorism with Islam (as some commentators and officials are doing), we're undermining the freedom of religion itself.

6. Hoping that our soldiers come home to their families and that innocents aren't harmed doesn't mean military action should supplant democratic deliberation, negotiation, and public accountability. Some in the Bush administration talk about the military as though it were a preferable form of judiciary--it brings swift "justice." But it's actions have little public accountability and government oversight can usually be circumvented. Such thinking and action is turning our democratic republic into a capitalist military state.

7. Realize that Western media has primed you to dislike Muslims. From movies to TV dramas to endless headlines filled with blood and smoke, Muslims are almost always represented negatively. You'll most likely have to work at it to overcome subtle (and not so subtle) prejudices. But overcoming prejudice against Muslims does not mean that you suddenly should dislike Jews or Israel. And it doesn't mean that you don't have qualms about the politics of Islamic countries or their social practices. It just means that you treat them like the neighbors they are instead of like the militant "other" that some would have them be.

[creekster]

WOuld all of these statements still be accurate, in your opinion, if one limited them to those muslims adhering to Wahhabism or the more extreme shi'ite sects?

This is not meant as a rhetorical question, btw.

[Venkman]

Nothing like a condescending liberal taking the "moral high ground" and completely ignoring reality.

It's a question of numbers and percentages. Sure there are Christian wackos and terrorists, but they are a minuscule portion of the total and are TOTALLY marginalized by the larger communit.

Muslim extremists OTOH, account for around 10% of the population according to the experts I've come across, and they've scared the bejeezus out ot the peaceful Muslims and are in control of entire countries in many cases. The militants are in the drivers seat.

And even the "mainstream" Muslim organizations like CAIR envision the crescent flag atop the White House and Sharia law supplanting the constitution. (Yes I know CAIR doesn't speak for all Muslims just like NAACP doesn't speak for all black people)

Not all Muslims are terrorists, but most terrorists are Muslims. Not all oppressed people blow up women and children. I think this is fairly obvious.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by creekster

WOuld all of these statements still be accurate, in your opinion, if one limited them to those muslims adhering to Wahhabism or the more extreme shi'ite sects?

This is not meant as a rhetorical question, btw.

Good question, but I'm not familiar enough with the numerical representations of each of such groups.

Shi'a are a large faction and Wahhabbists dominate much of the gulf. The Sunna also.

I agree the moderates are not doing enough to moderate matters.

[MikeWaters]

Plenty of Muslims distance themselves from the terrorists.

1) the media doesn't cover it, because it isn't news
2) you aren't paying attention, because if you wanted to know what they were saying, you would look for it.
3) sometimes peoples believe what they want to believe.

Start by checking out the Muslim-American associations.

[Colly Wolly]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Plenty of Muslims distance themselves from the terrorists.

1) the media doesn't cover it, because it isn't news
2) you aren't paying attention, because if you wanted to know what they were saying, you would look for it.
3) sometimes peoples believe what they want to believe.

Start by checking out the Muslim-American associations.

Link?

[MikeWaters]

http://www.cair-net.org/html/911statements.html

[BigFatMeanie]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

http://www.cair-net.org/html/911statements.html

Too funny...

Just as I was posting my takedown of CAIR, Mike was posting their belying statements about 9/11. The "Criticism of CAIR" section on CAIR's wikipedia page is rather informative.

CAIR is a classic example of "do what I say, not what I do". Their organization is ostensibly denouncing terrorism while members of their organization are busy contributing to, associating with, or otherwise supporting terrorism.

No offense Mike, but CAIR is a bad example. Muslim-American groups that denounce terror do exist. Unfortunately CAIR isn't one of them -- CAIR's actions speak so loud that I simply can't hear their words.

[Venkman]

Originally Posted by BigFatMeanie

Too funny...

Just as I was posting my takedown of CAIR, Mike was posting their belying statements about 9/11. The "Criticism of CAIR" section on CAIR's wikipedia page is rather informative.

CAIR is a classic example of "do what I say, not what I do". Their organization is ostensibly denouncing terrorism while members of their organization are busy contributing to, associating with, or otherwise supporting terrorism.

No offense Mike, but CAIR is a bad example. Muslim-American groups that denounce terror do exist. Unfortunately CAIR isn't one of them -- CAIR's actions speak so loud that I simply can't hear their words.

CAIR and many of these other Muslim American organizations are part of the problem. They are classic "we denounce terrorism, BUT... America this or Israel that". At worst they're terrorist fronts, and at best they're classic "grievance" pressure groups ala NAACP. Just a couple of years ago in California Ibrahim Hooper of CAIR talked about wanting Sharia law as the law of the land in the U.S. Many of these clowns may not support the tactics of the terrorists, but in many cases they support the goals. I for one want him and people like him the hell out of this country.

Obligatory disclaimer: I'm talking about these organizations, and not necessarily all of the members of these organizations or the Muslim U.S. population in general. But if they feel this way, I don't want them here. And I support a moratorium on middle east immigration (unless they're Christians or Jews) just to be safe. The last thing we need is a 5-10% Muslim population in this country - let's ask Europe how that's working out for them.

Maybe some of you are horrified by my views. I don't give a shit.

http://www.danielpipes.org

[BigFatMeanie]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Plenty of Muslims distance themselves from the terrorists.

1) the media doesn't cover it, because it isn't news
2) you aren't paying attention, because if you wanted to know what they were saying, you would look for it.
3) sometimes peoples believe what they want to believe.

Start by checking out the Muslim-American associations.

Unfortunately, many of the Muslim-American associations are simply front groups or fundraising groups for terrorist organizations. For Exhibit A, I give you:

Council on American Muslim Relations
American Muslim Federation
American Muslim Council

All of these groups have leadership that has either refused to denounce terrorism or has funding or other ties to terrorism. CAIR is the most well-known Muslim-American association. It's also the most famous for its ties to terrorist organizations and refusal to denounce terrorism:

From a Washington Times article:
"When asked by The Washington Post in November 2001 if he would condemn Hamas and Islamic Jihad, Mr. Hooper [(the spokesman for CAIR)] responded, "It's not our job to go around denouncing." Asked by the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette in February 2002 to condemn Hamas and Hezbollah, Mr. Hooper called such questions a "game" and explained, "We're not in the business of condemning."

CAIR is also famous (infamous) for the "photoshopped hijab" episode: http://jihadwatch.org/archives/008110.php

Just like with muslim individuals, not ALL Muslim-American associations refuse to denounce terrorism or have ties to terrorist organizations; unfortunately, you have to search pretty hard to find these associations. Even more unfortunately, their voices are drowned out by the deafening silence from the majority of Muslim-American associations when it comes to denouncing terrorism...