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myboynoah · 09-05-2008, 12:58 PM

For the second time Krauthammer expresses big questions about the Palin pick.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...d=opinionsbox1

MikeWaters · 09-05-2008, 01:16 PM

East Coast elite. Let's face it, the Haaavaad elites have a tough time understanding the Palin wing.

BarbaraGordon · 09-05-2008, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

The Haaavaad elites have a tough time understanding the Palin wing.

And which Palin wing would that be? The Southern Baptist apocalyptics or the Nascar fans?

MikeWaters · 09-05-2008, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

And which Palin wing would that be? The Southern Baptist apocalyptics or the Nascar fans?

the kind of people that go to crappy universities and live in small towns that no one has heard of, send their kids to public schools, etc.

It's child abuse to someone like Krauthammer to send your kid to a public school.

BarbaraGordon · 09-05-2008, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

the kind of people that go to crappy universities and live in small towns that no one has heard of, send their kids to public schools, etc.

I for one don't see anything wrong with degrees from third-tier state universities.

BarbaraGordon · 09-05-2008, 02:16 PM

Actually, if I can be serious for once, Kraut has the right idea but the wrong specific. He suggests that in selecting someone who's shiny and pretty and inexperienced, McCain "gratuitously forfeited his most powerful argument against Obama." But that's not exactly true. After all, no one cares quite so much about the nonsubstance or the inexperience of the VP. Choosing a real maverick, a young maverick, a here-and-now maverick -- that's the strength of this pick. I don't think that's a gamble at all.

So where's the risk? Well, consider what made McCain such a surprising and formidable pick for the GOP - it was his moderate-ness, his crossparty appeal, his unalienatingness. And it is that strength, not his claim to experience, that he's jeopardizing with this VP.

McCain has been in Washington for so long that his record is all over the middle 2/3s of the spectrum. He can portray himself as anything he needs to; and, indeed, he has. But with Palin, McCain is forfeiting an awful lot of that freedom. There's no gray with Palin, and her only flip is in her hairdo. There's no getting around that she's a hard-core right-wing social conservative.

McCain was clearly hoping this choice would energize the faction of the GOP base still disgruntled that Huck didn't garner the nomination. And certainly it has. But perhaps more important is whether this pick will alienate those moderates and crossparty voters so critical to McCain's potential success.

Among her positions that may alienate moderates: she is pure pro-life, supporting the prohibition of abortion with almost no exception; she supported the Alaskan amendment banning gay marriage; she is an advocate and even provides incentives for aerial hunting, among the most gruesome forms of the sport (if at that extreme it qualifies as such); and she's among an evangelical sect that New England Americans find absolutely alien in its practices. Though the socially conservative right will be thrilled with her beliefs, the swing voters - those who will in large measure determine this election - will not be as impressed. Whereas before these middle voters were choosing between an extreme liberal ticket and a right-moderate ticket, now they're left choosing between two extremes.

It's a dichotomy McCain himself set up, but honestly I don't know if it's a dichotomy that benefits McCain in the long run.

MikeWaters · 09-05-2008, 02:30 PM

With the selection of Palin, suddenly McCain - Palin is an "extreme" right-wing ticket?

Going back to the point of Republican elitism ala Krauthammer....we see that typified on our board with the likes of SU. Who is surprised to find out that most people on the board don't have their evening meal prepared by a chef everyday. Who frets endlessly over which private elementary school his child will be accepted into, and is upset that minorities might have an advantage, etc.

These are the Billy Kristols and the George Wills and the Robert Novaks. These are people who if placed in the Republican convention hall will have a tough time sitting next to about 90% of the swarthy noveau delegates.

YOhio · 09-05-2008, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

Among her positions that may alienate moderates: she is pure pro-life, supporting the prohibition of abortion with almost no exception; she supported the Alaskan amendment banning gay marriage; she is an advocate and even provides incentives for aerial hunting, among the most gruesome forms of the sport (if at that extreme it qualifies as such); and she's among an evangelical sect that New England Americans find absolutely alien in its practices. Though the socially conservative right will be thrilled with her beliefs, the swing voters - those who will in large measure determine this election - will not be as impressed. Whereas before these middle voters were choosing between an extreme liberal ticket and a right-moderate ticket, now they're left choosing between two extremes.

On abortion, he had to pick a pro-life running mate. She's more pro-life than most, but it was inevitable.

On gay marriage, she vetoed a bill that would have denied benefits for the partners of homosexual state employees. Her position is virtually identical to that of Obama's, except for her support of a state amendment.

On aerial hunting...lol!!!!

On her religion, unless she's Mormon, it won't be an issue.

Despite your efforts, I think she'll be fine.

BarbaraGordon · 09-05-2008, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOhio

On abortion, he had to pick a pro-life running mate. She's more pro-life than most, but it was inevitable.

On gay marriage, she vetoed a bill that would have denied benefits for the partners of homosexual state employees. Her position is virtually identical to that of Obama's, except for her support of a state amendment.

On aerial hunting...lol!!!!

On her religion, unless she's Mormon, it won't be an issue.

Despite your efforts, I think she'll be fine.

She may well be fine, and she certainly benefits from having a short record on these issues. Because of her brief tenure as governor, her tendency toward the extremes is indicated more by quotes and anecdotes than by votes and vetoes. I was just pointing out that I think this is a bigger risk for McCain than the inexperience issue.

Ma'ake · 09-05-2008, 01:42 PM

Just as Krauthammer finds unusal allies on CG, for once I agree with Mike. I don't like Krauthammer, never have.

But in this column, he manifests the axiom that occasionally even those who are nearly always wrong get something right.

09-05-2008, 12:58 PM	#1
myboynoah Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Memphis freakin' Tennessee!!!!! Posts: 4,530	Cali and BatGirl find an unlikely friend. For the second time Krauthammer expresses big questions about the Palin pick. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...d=opinionsbox1 __________________ Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!! Religion rises inevitably from our apprehension of our own death. To give meaning to meaninglessness is the endless quest of all religion. When death becomes the center of our consciousness, then religion authentically begins. Of all religions that I know, the one that most vehemently and persuasively defies and denies the reality of death is the original Mormonism of the Prophet, Seer and Revelator, Joseph Smith.

09-05-2008, 01:16 PM	#2
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,367	East Coast elite. Let's face it, the Haaavaad elites have a tough time understanding the Palin wing.

09-05-2008, 02:16 PM	#6
BarbaraGordon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Gotham City Posts: 7,157	Actually, if I can be serious for once, Kraut has the right idea but the wrong specific. He suggests that in selecting someone who's shiny and pretty and inexperienced, McCain "gratuitously forfeited his most powerful argument against Obama." But that's not exactly true. After all, no one cares quite so much about the nonsubstance or the inexperience of the VP. Choosing a real maverick, a young maverick, a here-and-now maverick -- that's the strength of this pick. I don't think that's a gamble at all. So where's the risk? Well, consider what made McCain such a surprising and formidable pick for the GOP - it was his moderate-ness, his crossparty appeal, his unalienatingness. And it is that strength, not his claim to experience, that he's jeopardizing with this VP. McCain has been in Washington for so long that his record is all over the middle 2/3s of the spectrum. He can portray himself as anything he needs to; and, indeed, he has. But with Palin, McCain is forfeiting an awful lot of that freedom. There's no gray with Palin, and her only flip is in her hairdo. There's no getting around that she's a hard-core right-wing social conservative. McCain was clearly hoping this choice would energize the faction of the GOP base still disgruntled that Huck didn't garner the nomination. And certainly it has. But perhaps more important is whether this pick will alienate those moderates and crossparty voters so critical to McCain's potential success. Among her positions that may alienate moderates: she is pure pro-life, supporting the prohibition of abortion with almost no exception; she supported the Alaskan amendment banning gay marriage; she is an advocate and even provides incentives for aerial hunting, among the most gruesome forms of the sport (if at that extreme it qualifies as such); and she's among an evangelical sect that New England Americans find absolutely alien in its practices. Though the socially conservative right will be thrilled with her beliefs, the swing voters - those who will in large measure determine this election - will not be as impressed. Whereas before these middle voters were choosing between an extreme liberal ticket and a right-moderate ticket, now they're left choosing between two extremes. It's a dichotomy McCain himself set up, but honestly I don't know if it's a dichotomy that benefits McCain in the long run.

09-05-2008, 02:30 PM	#7
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,367	With the selection of Palin, suddenly McCain - Palin is an "extreme" right-wing ticket? Going back to the point of Republican elitism ala Krauthammer....we see that typified on our board with the likes of SU. Who is surprised to find out that most people on the board don't have their evening meal prepared by a chef everyday. Who frets endlessly over which private elementary school his child will be accepted into, and is upset that minorities might have an advantage, etc. These are the Billy Kristols and the George Wills and the Robert Novaks. These are people who if placed in the Republican convention hall will have a tough time sitting next to about 90% of the swarthy noveau delegates.

09-05-2008, 01:42 PM	#10
Ma'ake Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: SLC Posts: 441	Just as Krauthammer finds unusal allies on CG, for once I agree with Mike. I don't like Krauthammer, never have. But in this column, he manifests the axiom that occasionally even those who are nearly always wrong get something right.